Sea Breeze

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Posts by Sea Breeze

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  62

  Probability of Earth and life being how it is

  by ballistic in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  there are some things we don't know about existence and whether the earth is a simulation or even a creation.

  but we can do some statistical analysis on it.. the probability of a planet like earth existing in the goldilocks zone and having a moon that perfectly eclipses the sun is extremely low, but it's not impossible.

  the habitable zone (or goldilocks zone) around a star is the region where a planet could potentially support liquid water on its surface.

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  Sea Breeze

  no, I cannot think of any historical examples of that

  And neither can anyone else..... except for one example: Many Unbelieving scholars who publish in the area of 1st century Christianity agree to the following facts surrounding the Resurrection:

  1. Jesus died by Roman crucifixion.
  2. He was buried, most likely in a private tomb.
  3. Soon afterward, the disciples were discouraged, bereaved, and despondent, having lost hope.
  4. Jesus’ tomb was found empty very soon after his interment.
  5. The disciples had experiences that they believed were actual appearances of the risen Jesus.
  6. Due to these experiences, the disciples’ lives were thoroughly transformed, even being willing to die for this belief.
  7. The proclamation of the resurrection took place very early, at the beginning of church history.
  8. The disciples’ public testimony and preaching of the resurrection took place in the city of Jerusalem, where Jesus had been crucified and buried shortly before.
  9. The Gospel message centered on the death and resurrection of Jesus.
  10. Sunday was the primary day for gathering and worshipping.
  11. James, the brother of Jesus and former skeptic, was converted when, he believed, he saw the risen Jesus.
  12. Just a few years later, Saul of Tarsus (Paul) became a Christian believer due to an experience that he believed was an appearance of the risen Jesus.”

  Yet, some folks ask believers to park their common sense and just remain unbelievers with no historical support for their proposition of denial.

  I can't do that.
• 
  62

  Probability of Earth and life being how it is

  by ballistic in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  there are some things we don't know about existence and whether the earth is a simulation or even a creation.

  but we can do some statistical analysis on it.. the probability of a planet like earth existing in the goldilocks zone and having a moon that perfectly eclipses the sun is extremely low, but it's not impossible.

  the habitable zone (or goldilocks zone) around a star is the region where a planet could potentially support liquid water on its surface.

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• 

  Sea Breeze

  @TonusOH

  You answered a question I did not ask. Again, here is the question:

  Can you think of any historical examples of where hundreds of people fabricated a lie at the same time that was guaranteed to cause their loved ones to reject and shun them? Then, these same people were willing to die for something they KNEW was a lie?
• 
  62

  Probability of Earth and life being how it is

  by ballistic in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  there are some things we don't know about existence and whether the earth is a simulation or even a creation.

  but we can do some statistical analysis on it.. the probability of a planet like earth existing in the goldilocks zone and having a moon that perfectly eclipses the sun is extremely low, but it's not impossible.

  the habitable zone (or goldilocks zone) around a star is the region where a planet could potentially support liquid water on its surface.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Sea Breeze

  @TonusOH

  It is my understanding...It seems more likely...So, my guess would be...

  That is a substantial retraction from your earlier statement:

  Thus, it's pretty clear that people will die for a lie.

  So, no. You cannot provide historical examples where hundreds of people fabricated, lived and preached a lie that guaranteed many of their loved ones would reject and shun them. Then, after suffering this (the same thing many XJW's commit suicide over) these same people were willing to die for something they KNEW was a lie.
• 
  62

  Probability of Earth and life being how it is

  by ballistic in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  there are some things we don't know about existence and whether the earth is a simulation or even a creation.

  but we can do some statistical analysis on it.. the probability of a planet like earth existing in the goldilocks zone and having a moon that perfectly eclipses the sun is extremely low, but it's not impossible.

  the habitable zone (or goldilocks zone) around a star is the region where a planet could potentially support liquid water on its surface.

  1. 
  2. 
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• 

  Sea Breeze

  TonusOH,

  Thus, it's pretty clear that people will die for a lie.

  Of course people will die for a lie. But, that is not the question I asked.

  Can you think of any historical examples of where hundreds of people fabricated a lie at the same time that was guaranteed to cause their loved ones to reject and shun them? Then, these same people were willing to die for something they KNEW was a lie?

  @Jeffro
  
  

  The probability of things being the way they are is precisely 1

  Your above statement is rooted in the "present", WHICH IS ALREADY THE PAST ONCE OBSERVED.

  If I throw a pair of dice, the odds are very understood to the point where casinos can make millions of dollars predicting the outcome, BEFORE they happen, NOT AFTER.

  It is difficult (and fascinating) to imagine how an otherwise intelligent human can believe a demonstratable lie like the one you stated.
• 
  62

  Probability of Earth and life being how it is

  by ballistic in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  there are some things we don't know about existence and whether the earth is a simulation or even a creation.

  but we can do some statistical analysis on it.. the probability of a planet like earth existing in the goldilocks zone and having a moon that perfectly eclipses the sun is extremely low, but it's not impossible.

  the habitable zone (or goldilocks zone) around a star is the region where a planet could potentially support liquid water on its surface.

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  2. 
  3. 
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  Sea Breeze

  @peacefulpete

  Surely you are not naive enough to believe that people (orthodox Jews) made up this story and were willing to be ostracized by family, shunned by their community and die horrible deaths for something they knew to be a lie.

  How do you know you are not just believeing something as far fetched as 1975, then living in denial of the facts like your dad did? Is it possible that you are more like your dad than you care to admit?
• 
  54

  1975 !

  by Sea Breeze in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  how many of you here remember 1975?

  i hope the newer generations never forget.the true believers got shamed for it.

  those who were hedging their bets, fared much better.

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  Sea Breeze

  I think October was the month that got wispered around a lot.. By Dec. 31st, most were probably already in denial.

  
• 
  62

  Probability of Earth and life being how it is

  by ballistic in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  there are some things we don't know about existence and whether the earth is a simulation or even a creation.

  but we can do some statistical analysis on it.. the probability of a planet like earth existing in the goldilocks zone and having a moon that perfectly eclipses the sun is extremely low, but it's not impossible.

  the habitable zone (or goldilocks zone) around a star is the region where a planet could potentially support liquid water on its surface.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Sea Breeze

  I am confident that it isn't any [God]... It's a long road from "there is reason to believe that a creator exists" to "it is this specific creator."

  I think that if someone were to predict their own death and then claim that they would resurrect themself from the dead afterwards, then do it - that would pretty much do it for me. But, for the skeptics:

  The probability of someone fulfilling all Old Testament messianic prophecies is considered astronomically low by probability calculations. A mathematician, Peter Stoner, calculated that the chance of one person fulfilling eight specific prophecies was one in 10 to the power of 17 (1 in 100 quadrillion).

  Jesus is commonly believed to have fulfilled over 300 prophecies from the Old Testament, with estimates ranging from about 200 to 400 depending on the criteria used by different scholars. Notably, some sources highlight that he fulfilled 27 prophecies in a single day.
• 
  54

  1975 !

  by Sea Breeze in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  how many of you here remember 1975?

  i hope the newer generations never forget.the true believers got shamed for it.

  those who were hedging their bets, fared much better.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Sea Breeze

  Most people at the time just seemed to see it as a coming event, like a forthcoming convention or vacation, just a fact of life that was going to occur but much more exciting.

  This is exactly how it was in my home. When Nixon won the 1972 election, my father turned the TV off and announced that Nixon was the President that would end this "old sysem".

  At 9 years old, I did the math and calculated that I only had about 3 years to live.

  @Balaamsass
  
  

  I remember a nice sister who was pregnant in 1973. An Elder was giving a part on the closeness of the end and "Woe to the pregnant woman" and how ignoring the END showed a lack of faith and may result in losing a child during Armageddon! That poor sister started crying and sobbing got up and ran to the back room.

  Your story, in my opinion captures the utter hysteria, calousnessness and pompous attitudes of JW's, still present in much the same measure today. I remember my father screaming while whipping me with a belt, "you are void of all feellings for other people"! Must have been quite shocking for him to witness skepticism from one of his sons at such an early age.

  In the end, I won. He never was able to beat it out of me.
• 
  70

  Did the Fred Franz style of writing cease after he died?

  by SydBarrett in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i was completely out by 1991 and 1989 would have been the last time i had to attend regularly.

  that over the top franz writing style was still there in the 1980's although i've heard he wasn't actually doing much writing by then.

  but his style was definitely picked up and imitated for many years beyond its wacky, outlandish peak of the the 50's - 70's.

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  Sea Breeze

  Protestantism, on the other hand, is historically traceable not to the first century but to the sixteenth-century Reformation. Before Luther, Calvin, and Zwingli, there were no Protestant churches.

  True, but there were new testament bible believers who never protested the RCC because they were never affiliated with it in the first place.
  

  "The Reformers and Their Step-Children" is a must-read for every Christian. It traces much church history that has been wiped out, forgotten, or just never fully brought to light.

  
  
• 
  54

  1975 !

  by Sea Breeze in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  how many of you here remember 1975?

  i hope the newer generations never forget.the true believers got shamed for it.

  those who were hedging their bets, fared much better.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Sea Breeze

  @ Biahi

  That's pretty amazing that you witnessed both the false prophecy and the shaming, direct from the platform. It is astonishing to me that people would put up with that kind of mental abuse. Seems like I was the only one in my family that it seemed to bother.

  That was almost 30 years before I was born.

  @liam

  That's exactly why you shouldn't forget about it. Once the eyewitnesses die off, the whole thing could get swept under the rug.
  
  I'm curious though; in your opinion what percentage of JW's in your general age group know nothing about it?